And as to Johnny's comment on bacteria growing on boys who can't retract their foreskin, I'm afraid you are talking out of ignorance. The penis is self-cleaning and doesn't require cleaning until becoming sexually active really. As I have said, smegma is antibacterial and urine is sterile, so it works perfectly. The vagina is self-cleaning too, and doesn't smell all that pretty. But you know what, douches aren't that popular in Australia either. If were such a problem, don't you think they would be? So people aren't as obsessed with that as some may think.

As a woman, I prefer an uncircumcised man. I find it typical that a cut man gives me UTI's. This is also true of my friends. I wondered what the difference could be until I learned that smegma contains antibacterial and antiseptic properties, which I believe work during intercourse to protect the woman from foreign bacteria as well. I think they should do studies on the correlation between circumcision in men and UTI's in their women partners. I haven't seen any thus far.

Not to mention the fact that a circumcised penis is dry. And when you can't use synthetic lube due to aggrevating the UTI problem and have hormonal changes yourself drying things up down there, sex becomes abrasive and unsatifying. This is simply fixed by leaving the foreskin intact.

This is just another reason to add to the long, overwhelming list of reasons not to circumcise.

Mutilation? WOW! Seriously? It is NOT mutilation. The penis works perfect when it is circumcised. It IS cleaner, no matter what anyone says. Imagine all the bacteria growing in your childrens foreskin, because they cannot retract it for 8 or 10 years, sometimes even longer! I can't have my children go through that. I have two sons and a daughter, their mum and I decided it would be best for them. They are perfect children, complete. Foreskin SERVES NO PURPOSE! I got circed at 19 because I had many complications with my foreskin! Doctors in Australia did not want to do anything (This was like 5 years ago, until I went to Sydney and got care of it! Seems like larger wester cities still perform routine circumcision, and especially in the suburbs where most upper-middle class families live and know the advantages. I would not let my children suffer because some Tasmanian backward men think differently. We are now seeing the effects of that generation that does not
circumcise...circumcision is therefore necessary later in life, infections and phimosis are the trend now, and STI rates are higher than ever! HIV/AIDS is growing thanks to this generation and what can we do about it? Circumcision is a natural and safe practice! I lost no sensitivity, do not go with those FOLK MYTHS! Trust WHO (World Health Organization) and UNAIDS, they highly recommend circumcision..and not some nuts from Tasmania!

if you circumcise your child for reasons other than phimosis that cannot be treated with topical steroids then you are a bad parent
:) that's all I have to say on this subject

I was traumatised by my forskin it was tight I spent years mutilating it and then got it removed it should have been done earlier but I tough it would be painfull and thought god has given me this thing one day I woke and found a doctor to remove this peice of tissue and found a different world I should have done long ago do not beleive there is no pain it is antiquated left over skin that needs to be dissposed of I would net let my son go with out being circumcised

i got my son cicumsize so he will not get infections, there is nothing wrong with it. my friends son is 5 and he needs to get one because he always gets infections it is worse when they are older.

Only in the name of religion could an adult pretend that her or his obscene desire to manipulate and mutilate an infant’s gentitals are in some way healthy, legal, and motivated by the best interests of the non-consenting child.

Foot binding anyone ?

Hello Ryan. Thanks for your comment.

I'm not sure that many people would agree with your assertions that the "foreskin is completely useless and causes more problems than it's worth". Like many discussions, that seems to me to be looking at things from one particular perspective, shaped by socialisation, and not backed up by medical evidence.

But you're entitled to your point of view! Thanks for sharing it.

Here's another note to add... the male foreskin is a part of natural evolution. The male body adapted this foreskin to protect the opening in the glans of the penis from dirt and bacteria. It wasn't "God's Will" or any of that other crap, it was evolution at it's best trying to keep us healthy. As man evolved and time went on we got smarter and invented these magical things called clothes. Later on in our existence we invented soap to clean ourselves. Now that we have the ability to effectively clean our penises and then cover them to protect them, foreskin is completely useless and causes more problems than it's worth.

My best friend and room mate has this to say:

"I am a bit prone to getting BV (bacteria vaginosis). I realize this is due to an imbalance in MY bacteria. However here is a fact: I am older and have had my share of lovers but EVERY time I have had sex with the non circumsized man who is my current lover where he did not thoroughly wash immediately prior to sex (washing the night before is not good enough) I have come down with BV right after. I am not exagerrating. This has happened at least 6 times and has made me consider ending the relationship because of his foreskin. I have had probably close to 100 lovers in the past 30 years (I am 44 now) and almost all of them were circumsized. I have never had this sort of problem with my circumsized partners."

Hi Crystal.

Thanks for your message. As it stands under US law, you do have the right to have your son circumcised, and although I'm sad you did, I'm glad you thought long and hard about it. I'll make some comments below. They're not specifically directed at you, but do respond to some of the assertions you make.

I find it a bit odd that the point about cleanliness keeps coming up in this discussion. Do parents in the US not teach their children to wash their faces, or brush their teeth, or wash behind their ears? They do in Australia. I've never, in my time as a nurse, encountered a man who didn't maintain that sort of hygiene, which really just consists of retracting the foreskin and washing underneath it. It takes me, oh, 5 seconds in the shower in the morning.

On your point (1) - sort of true. If you don't wash under your foreskin, smegma will gather, and it can become smelly. But it doesn't generally cause other problems, certainly not the infections you refer to.

On your point (2) - nope, not true. There isn't such a thing as 'too much' foreskin. Look it up in your friendly medical dictionary. If there was a condition, there would be a name, and it would be treated. This is a US grown mythic justification for circumcision. What would the problem of having a long foreskin be, if it is retracted? It wouldn't interfere with anything.

On your point (3) - nope, not true. Most of the cases of balanitis (infection or inflammation of the glans and/or foreskin) I've ever seen in clinical practice have been from men who have a reaction to something they clean with. And the weird obsession with chemicals in our culture leads some people to clean their delicate genitals with really strong chemicals. This causes dermatitis which leads to balanitis. The smell/infection myth promotes this, and perpetuates the myth.

Sad to say, your son didn't have too much foreskin. Most baby boys appear to have long foreskins. As they grow this normalises. And, I'm sorry, he didn't have lots of secretions. What your husband presumably saw was the membrane that joins the infant foreskin to the penis. This has to be ripped off the glans.

I've never had an infection of my foreskin - even when I was about as immune compromised as anyone can get, during my recent cancer treatment. My parents taught me how to maintain lots of hygiene tasks, including washing my genitals. They did the same for my 3 brothers, none of whom have had infections either. My partner has never had balanitis, either.

The 'looking like Dad' argument isn't even worth responding to, really, as it is so beyond the pale. American culture must be very different to Australian culture if adult men constantly, and without explanation of difference, flash their penises at their children. The simple explanation of penis differences is that penises are like noses. Each is different.

Anyway, I'm glad you thought about this step. I'm sad that you made your decision, but I hope you enjoy your baby.

Col

joe - "I just don’t see how any rational thinker can defend it."

I guess you can lump me in that quote. My son was circumcised yesterday at 10 days old. My husband and I struggled with our decision for 6 months prior to his birth and researched it as best we could. We also spoke to many people about why they have and haven't circumcised their own children.

A women I work with told me that her son "had" to be circumcised 2 days before he started grade 7. How traumatic would that be? You can't force a 12 year old to clean himself properly and for those of you that have not been circumcised and love that you're intact, I commend you for taking care of yourself the way you needed to. I have nothing against men that are intact, but I also see the benefits to circumcision.

1 - some men can have a very foul odor because of the folds. Some men just don't take care of themselves properly and that's where complications arise.

2 - some boys/men are born with too much foreskin or not enough and in those cases, circumcision IS reccommended.

3 - boy/men secrete with or without their foreskin removed. If the secretions are in excess then infections are bound to happen.

We found out after the circumcision (which I personally didn't watch, my husband went in with our son so that I didn't have too), that if we hadn't had him circumcised when we did, he would have had to have it done in the future regardless because of #2 and 3 up there. He was born with too much foreskin and a lot of secretion. He would have been infected at some point and there was no way to tell when it would happen.

I'm personally happy that we did it. He didn't cry, they froze him and afterward when the freezing wore off, he still wasn't in any pain. Which was my biggest fear.

I'd also like to say that we also wanted him to look like his father. My husband (david) didn't get to choose the way his penis looked and when we first talked about getting it done or not he didn't want too until after we looked into it. We also realized that in potty training if he didn't look liek his father, he might think there was something wrong with him. Not to say that would be the case, we just wanted them to look the same.

Hi Joe.

Thanks for your comment. Circumcision is certainly one of those topics that generates much more heat than light, so I think it is important to approach it in as dispassionate a way as possible, while putting the facts as clearly as possible.

I don't see how a rational adult can defend routine infant circumcision, but I understand that it is a matter of custom, social values and religious sentiment, which often overtakes rationality, in my experience!

cthornby - Wow this is an old post but seems to have attracted some recent attention. I can't stand that picture but hopefully with post and constructive comments like yours, we'll see circumcision work its way out of our society. I just don't see how any rational thinker can defend it.

Thanks for your comment, Seth. I appreciate the time and effort people take to make comments.

When the foreskin is working correctly, which it does in the vast majority of cases, a man won't have any problem with phimosis (which is the situation you're describing - a foreskin that is too tight to retract). Circumcision definitely makes this impossible, but to prevent one case of phimosis, which is manageable medically, you need to circumcise an awful lot of males.

You also said "a circumcised male is much less likely to spread the HIV virus". This isn't actually correct. The studies show that for men who have sex with women in those African communities, being circumcised reduces the risk that they will contract HIV. Being circumcised is absolutely not protective against spreading HIV, because the virus is in semen, and circumcision does nothing to change semen. It seems that if the woman is HIV positive, a circumcised man is less likely to contract HIV through vaginal intercourse. While this is a benefit, using condoms or being in a monogamous sexual relationship is much more effective.

The fact that people misunderstand what the circumcision / HIV studies say, and suggest that circumcised men are less likely to spread HIV is very concerning, and is one of the reasons why I'm against the idea of linking the two. One doesn't have to stretch the mind far to imagine people selecting sexual partners on the basis of them being circumcised and assuming that means they won't have HIV. Very worrying...

Despite what allot of people have said there are indeed medical advantages to having a circumcision. In many cases males who haven't had circumcisions foreskin can become too tight and be very uncomfortable and even in some cases tear during sex. Another growing reason why circumcisions especially in 3rd world nations have become more popular is because a circumcised male is much less likely to spread the HIV virus.

Thanks for your comment, Neal.

I'm sorry to hear that you're not happy with having a foreskin, or remnants of one. I suppose the benefit of being an adult is that you can choose to have a circumcision, or a revision circumcision if you want to. It's up to you, and not something you have to 'live with' if you don't want to.

But just because you're not happy with how you are doesn't mean that all infants should be circumcised (and I know you didn't say that explicitly in your comment - I'm just picking up on what I think your sentiment is). I'm not circumcised and I would be very unhappy if I had been.

I have wished everyday of my life that my Circumcision or lack of (my Dr.s don't even know if I am or not) had been performed low and tight. I hate my foreskin and never a pee has gone by that I haven't resented having to have lived with it on my penis.

Exactly. “So why the **** change it.”

ALL Human males are born with foreskins, so why the **** would you remove it? It’s not a birth defect. The second regenerative medicine becomes available I’m growing mine back. (The real one, not skin tugging.)

Hello O_o and thank you for your comment. I've lightly edited it, because I prefer not to have the swearing here.

You're entitled to your opinion. I think, personally, you should do some more research and learn how to frame arguments in a more reasoned way.

I'm resolutely against routine infant circumcision because there are no clear benefits to the individual, some clear risks, and some known costs. Conversely, there are no known dis-benefits to remaining intact, no unmanageable risks, and no known costs. I have no issue if you want to be circumcised, or if any adult male wishes to be - what they do with their body is up to them. Making a decision like that on behalf of a child is not ethical and is not within the right of the parent.

Just because lots of men in the US are circumcised does not make it automatically right. Most of the men in the world are not circumcised, which by your logic makes the position you're putting wrong.

To say that women don't have a problem with it is besides the point - you like what you're used to. In cultures where the majority of men are intact, it is circumcised men who look weird and mutilated.

And finally, the US is changing on this issue. Look at the statistics.

US will not change this. Whats the big deal honesly ? Its only a circumcision its not genital mutilation. IF you think it is than type in a google search for genital mutation and see whats comes up. Your pretty stupid if you think theres a problem with being circumcised. In USA almost every male citizen is. Women dont seem to think theres a problem during sex. So why the **** change it.

That photo is nauseating. I'm so glad to see SOME countries are becoming smart enough to protect their children from this atrocity. Perhaps the US will follow with a similar bill in time.

Isn't that the most horrible picture? :(

Children need to be protected from this.

http://intactivist.wordpress.com/

Jen